|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1829
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 18:00:33 -
[1] - Quote
general buffs to missiles also incoming to balance this out? Outside of frigate sized missiles, missiles just don't seem like a great weapon type. that said I don't have the math wizardry or usage stats to really check, but it seems HML lose out on damage to MWDing cruisers to RLML even after reloads. add links and bleh. maybe just always fly with a rapier?
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1830
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 19:55:11 -
[2] - Quote
Clare Cooke wrote:adding another mod because the other missile mods you introduced are now making it able for a titan to kill a bunch of frig sized ships....
ooops i broke it again! considering ewar doesn't work on titans
also if you dedicate a bunch of slots to damage and application you are less effective else where. Although there are interesting interactions between webs, painters, rigors, flares, MGC, MGE, and crash booster, that do make things apply much better, it seems like a lot of effort where a gunship can just say haha transversal ka pow!
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1830
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 20:16:08 -
[3] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:general buffs to missiles also incoming to balance this out? Outside of frigate sized missiles, missiles just don't seem like a great weapon type. that said I don't have the math wizardry or usage stats to really check, but it seems HML lose out on damage to MWDing cruisers to RLML even after reloads. add links and bleh. maybe just always fly with a rapier?
do people actually believe that rapid launchers aren't massively overpowered? at this point I doubt it. but I'm still going to question the effectiveness of other launchers
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1835
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 23:37:32 -
[4] - Quote
Tiberius Mathusia wrote:The proposed effects seem quite weak compared to the effect TD's have on turrets. With an unbonused hull I can expect 40% range reduction against a turret with the optimal script but a 30% reduction in flight time doesn't even equate to a 30% in range because the missile range is still buoyed up by missile speed.
That said I'm glad it's being introduced given that TD fits are generally weak against missile boats. considering that missile guidance computers add speed and time with a range script, I would assume that using a range script will drop flight speed and flight time. Seems pretty strong on the range side.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1840
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 17:11:09 -
[5] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:the question that still has not been answered will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules
Yes. You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed".
There is no log entry about the missiles that have missed. and with -60% flight speed and -60% flight time, they are probably going to miss a lot. unbonused light missiles go 5.6km/s or so, jumps up to 8.4km/s with a 10% per lv bonus. Cruise missiles are a bit faster at ~7km/s, and 10.5km/s on a bonused ship. although with their application you are probably better off just precision damping. and heavies go about 6.5 to 9.5. Then there is the mordus line with ludicrous speed
I'm not sure if 0 damage is a thing, although back in the nano days most missiles that could even catch their targets did something like 0.1 damage or whatnot. although it has been a while and I might not be remembering exactly right.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1840
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 19:26:13 -
[6] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:the question that still has not been answered will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules
Yes. You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed". There is no log entry about the missiles that have missed. and with -60% flight speed and -60% flight time, they are probably going to miss a lot. unbonused light missiles go 5.6km/s or so, jumps up to 8.4km/s with a 10% per lv bonus. Cruise missiles are a bit faster at ~7km/s, and 10.5km/s on a bonused ship. although with their application you are probably better off just precision damping. and heavies go about 6.5 to 9.5. Then there is the mordus line with ludicrous speed I'm not sure if 0 damage is a thing, although back in the nano days most missiles that could even catch their targets did something like 0.1 damage or whatnot. although it has been a while and I might not be remembering exactly right. I think he's referring to this anomaly: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f38ok/major_bug_with_missile_volleys_completely/ missiles have to accelerate up to speed, it has been pretty well documented. Especially back when people were theory crafting torp golems. Although the way it is inconsistent between volleys is a little odd. I do remember a CCPer saying back in the nano days they couldn't just make missiles go faster because they broke the physics engine, so I always thought the huge missile velocity bonus on mordus ships was funny.
this is a thread (from 2013) that I could find somewhat easily, and I say "(but it has been a few years)" : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2777613
I kept digging, here's a 2010 thread that haphazardly lops 10% of range off to account for missile acceleration: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1272939
we attributed it to the target moving which apparently might not be the case, but it is pretty much how missiles have worked for a long time (if not always). could very well also be a server tick issue. I noticed big variances in my damage on a burner mission recently, where I was damn near at max range.
Edit: the more I think about it the more it seems like a server tick issue, especially with the mordus ship losing ~15% range, the way acceleration works I would expect it to lose less range
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1841
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 05:45:52 -
[7] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:One of the most important questions regarding missile performance, specifically larger missiles, is whether or not the Missile Guidance Enhancers/Computers have succeeded in helping these platforms. I have some information about their adoption rates, but I personally wonder if the pilots using them are doing so for reasons other than "they are great at missile damage application" such as:
- Using them for range
- Using them to make up for Aegis stacking penalties
- Using them out of curiosity
I'm going to try to find out how these modules have affected larger ship efficacy, not just popularity of the ships or these modules. My guess is that they haven't significantly helped larger missiles (though I won't speak for light missile boats). If that's the case, I'm afraid the net result here is missiles as a platform will be even weaker than they were pre-Aegis (when missiles were supposed to be buffed). Since it was largely agreed at the time missiles were not in a happy place (and perhaps still aren't), this scenario could be very, very sad for missile pilots.
I just don't use anything that isn't a frigate sized missile. the one place I've tried MGC/MGE is on a kite garmur for burner missions. which is something I probably won't be using often.
when using missiles I have to do math and stuff. I'm playing a video game, not worth it! guns I just minimize transversal and blap. with missiles I feel like I'd need to pay someone to fly a rapier around with me. I feel like there is just too much silliness going on in the missile damage formula. While I was digging through threads earlier someone said something about a dread being able to blap a pod, where a light missile gets a damage reduction. Light missiles may have been buffed since but I think the general point is there.
The big problem, missiles get too big of a buff and they are super duper good. Someone was saying that large missiles were destroying frigates with heated missile guidance computers when they first showed up on sisi.
my alt has perfect missile skills and I just can't stand using them. they were kinda cool as a newb, shooting glowing balls of death, plus everyone said to use them. but however many buff/nerf cycles later... nope! Although in pve you can get away with damage application rigs, painters, MGC and whatnot. A pvp ship fit like that is DoA.
speaking of that, can we get glowing balls of death back please! I don't even see missiles in flight anymore.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1845
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 17:57:26 -
[8] - Quote
I went to look for a quantum rise missile change devblog... can't find one I did find the speed one and that has some good lines: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/speed-rebalanced/
and the patchnotes alone aren't very helpful http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-quantum-rise-1
Quote:All missile types have been balanced to ensure that oversized missiles do not have too much of an effect on smaller ships. As before, ships are still protected from larger missiles by their signature radius. When going sufficiently fast, the damage taken from missiles is reduced by the signature radius to speed ratio, rather than just speed. Going faster or reducing the signature radius will reduce missile damage further. For a ship with the same signature radius as the missile's explosion radius, the missile's explosion velocity indicates the speed at which the missile damage starts to get reduced. The new formula allows for speed tanking using afterburners. In fact, afterburners will in general be more effective than micro warp drive for speed tanking missiles.
found the thread! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=899873 would have been easier but all the oldforums links are broken, and the "external link" filter just makes it a nightmare
the link to where "here" goes to in the last link: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=861746
sadly this was the days where "We don't talk about our formulas as a rule, sorry :)"
great now I've done so much digging I forgot what my initial point was. I think it had something to do with why they did whatever they did with the formula but well, see above. I suppose a lot of the why is established through explanations of ideals about the formula. Also makes me wonder what the pre QR formula was. I remember missiles overall being pretty usable then except vs nano ships where they were almost completely ineffective. either not catching the target, or hitting for near 0 damage.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1845
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 18:00:56 -
[9] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Is it just me or does it feel like missiles and related mods are being balanced around Rapids and the Mordu ships?
Anyway, if missile disruptors become a problem, everyone will just switch to using Missile Drones (because drones tend to solve most ECM problems.)
Personally, I'm holding out for CCP to announce Drone Drones. (Drones that have their own drones.)
Drones do not use missles. Caldari drones use hybrids, but they still do kinetic. I was riffing on drones > ECM, implying that "missile drones" would be the only way that missiles would be effective if the missile disruptors went in with their current stats... /and_this_is_why_I_don't_do_comedy_for_a_living
I thought it was an obvious joke
@ChainsawPlankto
|
|
|
|